After being unable to take part in this weeks hangout live I will reflect on part of what was discussed by Dr. Lester. For those who would like to watch the hangout, you can do so by clicking here.
A large part of the hangout was devoted to Messiah figures both in and outside of the Bible. Char made the bold claim that one must be anointed to be a Messiah, although that sounds appealing to me from a Biblical perspective, our extra-Biblical Messiah figures are rarely anointed. Many of them are not even kingly figures. This is in large part due to our looking at the Messiah figure through the lens of Jesus, the one who saves, and not through the Old Testament lens. Of course this is in spite of the notion of Jesus as King, but our focus tends to be on the salvific action of Jesus, not on the Kingship of Jesus.
Thus, for extra-Biblical Messiahs, I don't think anointing or Kingship is a requirement. Even in late Biblical texts Dr. Lester points out that even Kingship stops being a requirement as objects become anointed and Joshua is anointed as the high priest. A sub-conversation of this came up as to who are these extra-Biblical Messiah figures. Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings is an all to easy example that fits many of the Messiah tropes, if you will. Star Wars was also brought up and Luke Skywalker was discussed as the Messiah figure. Luke is certainly the hero who follows many of the Russian folktale components mentioned as well as the classic hero's journey, but he is not a Messiah figure. You can argue original trilogy, both trilogies, or full saga (including the clone wars and whatever else Disney has ruled as canon). No matter which of these you argue from (although the more you include the more obvious it becomes), it is Vader who is the Messiah of Star Wars, not Luke. Vader is the one who overthrows (literally) the Emperor, not Luke. Luke fails. Of course, in the latter trilogy Vader is literally named the chosen one. And if you've seen the clone wars cartoons you (SPOILERS) actually see what this means for him. It expands on our notions of Messiah and has him as the one who is to contain the deistic beings of good and evil and keep them in check without letting evil run rampant. He fails to accept this task, but then at the end of episode six makes up for this by destroying the one who most clearly personifies this deistic being. (END SPOILERS)
You also get with Vader an illusion to Belshazzar of Babylon/Cyrus of Persia. That is the crowned prince of Babylon. Not actually the King, but one who learns how to be King from doing Kingly things while being underneath the real King. This works well in some other ways too. Cyrus is an Empire builder, but he's also an Empire destroyer. He overthrows the Babylonian Empire just as Vader overthrows the Emperor. In fact this is Vader's goal for quite some time, he wishes to build a new Empire with his son. Of course Vader is within the original Empire anyway, unlike Cyrus. And instead of taking command he dies and leaves the Empire without a ruler. So Vader is not perfectly a Messiah figure, but he does fit some of the motifs of Messiahship. He even goes through an anointing of sorts in Episode 3 (albeit at the hands of the one who must be overthrown). Lucas is, no doubt, not a Biblical scholar, but it is still interesting to see just how many of these motifs are used in Star Wars and how they line up less with the idea with Messiah through the lens of Jesus, and much more with Messiah through the lens of the Hebrew Bible.
A large part of the hangout was devoted to Messiah figures both in and outside of the Bible. Char made the bold claim that one must be anointed to be a Messiah, although that sounds appealing to me from a Biblical perspective, our extra-Biblical Messiah figures are rarely anointed. Many of them are not even kingly figures. This is in large part due to our looking at the Messiah figure through the lens of Jesus, the one who saves, and not through the Old Testament lens. Of course this is in spite of the notion of Jesus as King, but our focus tends to be on the salvific action of Jesus, not on the Kingship of Jesus.
Thus, for extra-Biblical Messiahs, I don't think anointing or Kingship is a requirement. Even in late Biblical texts Dr. Lester points out that even Kingship stops being a requirement as objects become anointed and Joshua is anointed as the high priest. A sub-conversation of this came up as to who are these extra-Biblical Messiah figures. Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings is an all to easy example that fits many of the Messiah tropes, if you will. Star Wars was also brought up and Luke Skywalker was discussed as the Messiah figure. Luke is certainly the hero who follows many of the Russian folktale components mentioned as well as the classic hero's journey, but he is not a Messiah figure. You can argue original trilogy, both trilogies, or full saga (including the clone wars and whatever else Disney has ruled as canon). No matter which of these you argue from (although the more you include the more obvious it becomes), it is Vader who is the Messiah of Star Wars, not Luke. Vader is the one who overthrows (literally) the Emperor, not Luke. Luke fails. Of course, in the latter trilogy Vader is literally named the chosen one. And if you've seen the clone wars cartoons you (SPOILERS) actually see what this means for him. It expands on our notions of Messiah and has him as the one who is to contain the deistic beings of good and evil and keep them in check without letting evil run rampant. He fails to accept this task, but then at the end of episode six makes up for this by destroying the one who most clearly personifies this deistic being. (END SPOILERS)
You also get with Vader an illusion to Belshazzar of Babylon/Cyrus of Persia. That is the crowned prince of Babylon. Not actually the King, but one who learns how to be King from doing Kingly things while being underneath the real King. This works well in some other ways too. Cyrus is an Empire builder, but he's also an Empire destroyer. He overthrows the Babylonian Empire just as Vader overthrows the Emperor. In fact this is Vader's goal for quite some time, he wishes to build a new Empire with his son. Of course Vader is within the original Empire anyway, unlike Cyrus. And instead of taking command he dies and leaves the Empire without a ruler. So Vader is not perfectly a Messiah figure, but he does fit some of the motifs of Messiahship. He even goes through an anointing of sorts in Episode 3 (albeit at the hands of the one who must be overthrown). Lucas is, no doubt, not a Biblical scholar, but it is still interesting to see just how many of these motifs are used in Star Wars and how they line up less with the idea with Messiah through the lens of Jesus, and much more with Messiah through the lens of the Hebrew Bible.
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